Open Bar – The Palin/Biden/Ifill Debate
A place for drunken commentary on the Sarah Palin versus Joe Biden and Gwen Ifill “debate.”
Let’s hope Sarah is Sarah — and Joe is Joe!
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The scotch seemed out of place, I’ve got a bottle of Rum and some Coke.
Beck’s dark, here.
Palin just did a figurative triple snap to Biden.
You go, girl!
she pronounces the word Nuculer just like W.
Wonder how long it’ll take the media to pick up on that.
Has anyone noticed that old Joe scrunches his face up, makes faces and laughs inappropriately at anything Sarah says. I can’t stand Biden, he’s making my skin crawl. A number of martinis for me please!
Okay, not nice of me to add this but . . . as someone who has seen her husband off 3 times before-currently not deployed-and as someone who was in for 4 years right out of high school, JAGS are not on the front lines-men in stryker brigades are. That’s great old Joe’s son is going but he’s a JAG and therefore will tell people like my husband who they can or cannot shoot at. Sorry, JAGS are a PITA as for as I’m concerned.
Catie, thanks to yours for your sacrifices.. and thank you for that info.
binBiden has such a haughty sneer
what a jerk
But that came after she busted him on the McClellan misquote.
“Sorry, JAGS are a PITA as for as I’m concerned.”
Somebody has to read the enemy combatants their rights.
hey- what does PITA mean?
thx
“hey- what does PITA mean?”
Pain in the ass.
AC-Pain in the a$$,
Jason, even back when I was in from 82-86, I remember learning through hard knocks that JAGS were not always great friends to those who serve and unlike the fairy tale on tv.
I agree Admin.
Okay, again this is the snark in me-but Joe’s breakdown a few seconds ago speaking of the deaths of his wife and child, he just doesn’t seem sincere about it. I know, it’s terrible and mean but it just seemed like it was staged.
Hey barkeep, another round for the house please.
thx for the definition (I did know that)
the real question would be, why didn’t Biden quit Washington when the wife and child died and the other kid was in the hospital?
and
he is so wrong about “Men cannot bring up children alone.” My dad brought up 3 of us. What a POS. And I don’t like his squinty gaze.
Poor Biden, he was sworn in at the bedside of his two sons, just weeks after burying his wife and child. I have known other men too who brought up fine families as well. Gee, this again is snarky of me but-didn’t he mention during his selection to vp candidate that his wife was “hot”. Wonder if he would have said that about his late wife? Just asking.
Vice Presidential debate 2008 at Washington University in St Louis
Moderated by PBS author Gwen Ifill.
WAS THIS THE WORST OF WASHINGTON OR BEST (FINANCIAL RESCUE BILL)?
Biden: Neither worst or best–it was only Bush who was worst for the last 8 years; my man Obama has a good perspective about the financial crisis; middle class rah rah…
Palin: Thanks the commission; ask any parent how they feel about the crisis;we need reform, and McCain can deliver–he put politics aside to rally in Washington, and put country first
Biden: (Gwen asks if he can reach across the aisle) Yes, I can, because I always have; McCain recently showed that he can’t
Palin: Rebuts that McCain most certainly can, corrects Biden as she deftly looks ol’ Joe right in the eye [score Palin]
WHO WAS AT FAULT FOR THE SUBPRIME MELTDOWN?
Palin: Darn right that it was the greedy lenders; asks joe 6-packs and soccer moms to demand better results from Washington, and to not live beyond our means
Biden: Says that 2 years ago Obama sounded the alarm about the subprime crisis, McCain called instead for deregulation; cites example from experience at the gas station
Palin: Tax relief=job increase; Obama stands for increasing taxes on people all the way down to 42k/yr
Biden: Says that Sarah is exactly wrong on Obama’s tax vote, but that so did McCain [non-sequitor]
Palin: Excellent preface that she will answer the questions the way she wants to, not the way Gwen or Joe want her to; cites history as Alaskan pol
ARE YOU TAKING POLICIES FOR FINANCES & HEALTH CARE OUT ON THE POOR?
Biden: Me & Obama will not, but McCain’s policies are like Bush’s, which do
Palin: Joe, you forget about all of the small businesses; reminds Joe about claiming that paying more taxes is patriotic, which it isn’t; Joe, you’ve been the problem; health care credit & portability is McCain’s way and better
Biden: I don’t know where to start; says that in Scranton it isn’t called redistribution, it’s instead called “fair”; says McCain pays for his 5,000 heathcare credit by taxation
WHAT PROMISES HAVE YOU MADE THAT YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO KEEP
Biden: Won’t be able to keep what McCain claims for oil company tax relief (never citing his own team’s promises, which is what the question asks); rambles and says that the light is blinking and must stop, then talks for 30 more seconds
Palin: McCain doesn’t say one thing to one group, and the opposite to another; tells Joe that his man supported legislation that gave corporate tax breaks, then she had to undo as a gov in Alaska; (Gwen asks what of her own promises will she back off of)
Biden: Explains why Obama voted for the corporate tax breaks, which is senate procedural minutae, then says he won’t allow corporates to have windfall tax breaks
WILL YOU MAKE IT EASIER FOR FOLKS TO CLAIM BANKRUPTCY?
Palin: Yes, but with reform; McCain sounded the alarm first; must shore up the credit crisis
Biden: BK gets complicated, that’s why Obama and I voted differently on relief legislation; cites that McCain was surprised by the subprime crisis
Palin: Says joe offers quick answers, not solutions; demands that we strive for energy independence, ridiculous that we won’t drill in Alaska, as it will bolster small communities
WHAT’S TRUE/FALSE ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE ARGUMENT?
Palin: Alaska knows about it, but much is overhype re man causing all of it, but we should be good stewards, reduce emissions, be energy independent
Biden: It is man made, clearly; says that she and McCain don’t know what is causing the polar caps to melt, cites tired stats of our energy usage, claims that Obama will support nuclear energy; claims McCain voted 20 times against alt energy
Palin: Drill baby drill is the chant, and for good reason–it’s a cleaner process, now; Obama & Biden stop domestic drilling proposals; also wants alt energy
Biden: I support cap & trade, too; rope line zinger from Sarah was taken out of context; why did McCain vote so?
DO YOU SUPPORT SAME SEX BENEFITS?
Biden: Certainly, then says he and Obama are a fair couple of people
Palin: Not if it edges toward redefining America’s definition of marriage; I’m a diverse person who tolerates all types, wouldn’t prohibit hospital visits between gays, but won’t redefine the traditional definition
Biden: Obama and I don’t support redefining marriage definition either
IRAQ: WHAT IS THE EXIT STRATEGY?
Palin: Rests such intricate process with the generals on the ground, citing Patreus’ great record; draws difference between funding of troops question between Obama & McCain; we’re getting closer to victory, so don’t stop
Biden: I didn’t hear Sarah say a plan, and Obama has a 16 mo plan [no details]; says McCain doesn’t have a timeline/plan; we will end it, McCain says there is no end
Palin: Your plan is a white flag of surrender–we & the troops don’t need to hear that; generals on the ground know better than you and me when to leave; reminds Joe that he would have been happy to run on a ticket with McCain; Obama is disgracefully capable of cutting off money to troops
Biden: McCain can vote for cutting money also; cites “greeted w/ flowers” bs that he says Bush said and that McCAin agreed with
WHAT IS A GREATER THREAT: NUCLEAR PAKISTAN OR NUCLEAR IRAN?
Biden: Both are dangerous, Pakistan already has nukes; McCain’s defensive plan here at the US is dangerous; build schools on Pakistani border instead of madrassas
Palin: Both, of course; cites Patreus’ read of where the front is at these days; Israel is vulnerable and needs our help, cites Ahmadinejad’s belicose comments, yet Obama wants to meet with them, going beyond naivette & bad judgement
EXPERTS SAY ENGAGE WITH ENEMIES (IRAN): AGREE OR NOT?
Palin: Cites recent conversation with Kissinger, stressing diplomacy instead;
Biden: Untrue about sitting down with Ahmadinejad, talks down to McCain re misunderstanding that Ahmadinejad isn’t the center of power in Iran (theocracy is); how can you be diplomatic if you don’t sit down with Ahmadinejad like Obama would [non sequitor]
WHAT HAS THIS ADMINISTRATION DONE RIGHT/WRONG ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST?
Palin: Two state solution in Middle east is best, and Bush is still trying to broker that; build embassy in israel; Bush succeeded in Jordan and other Middle Eastern countries.
Biden: No one has been a better friend to Israel than Joe Biden; says Sarah is trying to rewrite history re Bush administration; says Hezbollah/Hamas strengthening is Bush’s fault; Obama’s mojo diplomacy will do the trick
Palin: Bush has not been an abject failure in Middle East; blunders happen to all, but Bush has been mostly good; country comes first, change is coming
Biden: Past is prologue; McCain has no different plan than Bush
INTERVENTION IF NUCLEAR WEAPONS EMERGE?
Palin: Bad regimes shouldn’t have nukes; economic sanctions/neighbor assistance for those that already have them; rebuts Joe’s claim that Bush policy would be the same as McCain in Afghanistan; cites Obama’s words that we are bombing innocent villagers
Biden: We spend too much money on Iraq war instead of Afghanistan; McCain voted against test ban treaty; stops in mid-sentence to say that Obama reaches across the aisle for solutions, cites McLellan’s words about war
Palin:: McClellan’s words were misquoted by Biden (Joe makes heavy sigh)
Biden: Our commanding general did make that quote; claims that Obama was the original one who called for a surge
IS INTERVENTION IN DARFUR RIGHT?
Biden: Bosnia saved thousands of lives; Iraq was a mistake, but I voted for it anyway; we can imply a no-fly zone in Darfur, seen the camps in Chad
Palin: I’m a Washington outsider, wondering how you can say that you’re against something you voted for in the first place [score sarah]; agrees on no-fly zone for Darfur, offers divestment policies in Alaskan oil funds against Sudan investment
Biden: We should draw a line in Darfur; I never supported McCain’s plan in Iraq
palin: I differ–you can say what you want, but Joe, you did originally vote for Iraq; McCain knows how to win a war
HOW WOULD YOU DIFFER FROM YOUR FRONT RUNNER IF HE DIED?
Biden: God forbid, but I would carry out his plans; cites health care blah blah, no Iraq war, not be dictators like Bush/Cheney
Palin: Heaven forbid, but what do you expect from two mavericks? I differ with him on ANWR, but would continue to put people first like McCain does; sides with main st Wasillians in their angst with Washingtonian politics
Biden: All you have to is go with me to Home Depot and ask if they are better off than 8 years ago; my state gets it
Palin: There you go again, ol Joe [love it], quit looking back, look forward; cites Joe’s wife as a 30-yr teacher, her blessing is in Heaven
WHAT WILL YOU DO AS VP?
Palin: Says she will preside over the senate, and work on McCAin’s energy policies, and work with families
Biden: No child left behind stinks (huh?); I have a history of getting things done, therefore will be Obama’s point man in legislative matters
(Gwen tries to associate Cheney’s VP role as policy maker with her, possibly)
Palin: Like him, a VP should be flexible enough to do a few roles
Biden: Cheney has been the most dangerous VP EVER; Cheney shouldn’t have tried to influence legislative branch, citing constitutional provisions [even though he just said he'd be Obama's point man in legislative matters]
WHAT IS YOUR ACHILLES HEEL?
Palin: Cites strengths as an energy executive, being a mom of a special needs son & Army soldier; cites love of reagan’s notion of America as “shining city on the hill”
Biden: I’m not going to change; me & Obama have performed more change than McCain; cites knowledge of being a single parent, tries to tug heartstrings re loss of first wife & kid in a car wreck, therefore he knows kitchen table politics
Palin: People are looking for change, and McCain, as maverick, has been change; so have I in Alaska against my own party in Alaska; tumultuous times demand change, not partisanship
Biden: John is no maverick; cites voting record parallel with Bush, especially the war (huh?);
WHAT ISSUE DID YOU REVERSE ON?
Biden: When I was young, my judicial temperament wasn’t right for the job, cites Bork episode
Palin: I passed bills as mayor and Governor that I wanted to zero budget on, but didn’t have the support; will bring in both sides without worrying about who gets the credit
HOW DO YOU CHANGE THE TONE IN WASHINGTON?
Biden: You reach across the aisle; I won’t question the opposite person’s motive
Palin: Appoint the right person regardless of party affiliation
CLOSING STATEMENTS
Palin: Thank-you for the chance to be here; I appreciate the chance to answer tough questions and meet Joe for the first time; cites Reagan that, “Freedom is one generation away”; loves America
Biden: Thanks all, and reciprocates Sarah’s sentiment that it was nice to meet her, also; Obama and I will care about people’s pain in this country, give them the right tools and uber health care; quotes his dad’s “when you get knocked down, get back up”
Sarah Palin answered all questions with confidence, passion, and deep knowledge of the issues. Her strength lies in her Washington outsider personality, and her investment (son in Iraq) in this great country, in my opinion.
Joe Biden seemed at most strident at times, but at least knowledgeable of most issues. He contradicted himself at times, as he let his passion trip up his logic.
SCORE: Palin 2
Biden 1.5
Our Sarah kicked a$$.
Luntz says expect shift in polls (good for McCain Palin ticket)
Sarah: “Watch me and want me.”
Is it just me, or is Biden trying to run as a conservative?
Biden’s whole debate: “blah blah blah Bush blah blah blah Cheney blah blah blah blah blah.” Repeat ad nauseum.
Its a good thing they pace these Palin appearances out a little bit. I don’t think I could afford contributing a hundred bucks every other day if she were allowed to do this more often! Guess I’ll have to give up Jack Daniels for another month in order to finance McCain’s campaign. I just wish he’d apply his strategy of staying in place until the job is done in places like Michigan like he does Iraq. I don’t think I’ll make the same sacrifice come Election Day (the only way I’ll be able to deal with a “President Obama” will be through a very angry liver), but here’s to holding out hope that Nov 5th can become a holiday instead of a National Day of Mourning.
I’m depressed. Palin refused we right wingers red meat. Nothing about illegals, borders, drugs or guns. Golem Awful, hostess, probably gave Joe Bitem questions in advance and kept “guns and their gods” issues far from the agenda so Bitem could look centrist.
Palin is beginning to bother me a trifle. She shouldn’t have met with Kissinger; she shouldn’t have said “we need to pass a bill” concerning Goldman Sachs’ Coup d’Etat of the US Treasury. She is becoming too much like McLame. Is she CFR/trilat?
McLame and now Palin are making it even harder to pull that lever — even with a .28 BAC
I voted absentee today (mail in ballot).
With the help of a couple Coors lights.
Unfortunately various health conditions mitigate against a really good buzz these days.
Catie—kudos to you for setting the record straight about JAGS vs combat arms folks. Your husband’s participation in the stryker unit is impressive, indeed. And thank you for your service in the 80’s and being an Army wife who stands loyally by her husband while away and home, doing an incredibly intense, life-threatening job. Not all women think it’s important to remain faithful to their husbands while he’s away on duty, and I felt that up close and personal when I was in.
I was an infantry soldier with the 82nd Airborne Division in the 80’s. I did 4 years honorably, and left to move on to the next chapter of my life. Then, after being out for only 8 months, I was recalled back in (I wasn’t in the guard or the reserves) for Desert Storm. It was an emergency recall of some 15,000 of us former infantry soldiers by President Bush Sr. I had only 7 days’ notice to get a will written, quit my job, quit college, and report to Ft Benning, Ga.
I can tell you with firsthand knowledge that when a man is away from his woman, and he is going through the strain of wondering whether she is being faithful to him, or, even worse, he hears that, indeed, she isn’t, the entire unit suffers. That man’s performance becomes compromised, those who depend upon him are jeopardized, and the mission suffers, lives are put at risk.
What you women do for your men is an invaluable gift, and any man would admit that if he’s been where I’ve been, and seen what I’ve seen.
(If you click my name, here, you are taken to my little attempt at a blog. There is a picture of me digging a foxhole in the frozen earth of winter. Here is a letter written between me and my old unit, serving in Iraq, after they suffered a mortar attack in which 8 of the men in my platoon were WIA, and one was KIA: http://whitefolksgreed.blogspo.....eally.html )
“Biden: When I was young, my judicial temperament wasn’t right for the job, cites Bork episode”
When I was young? He was a mere stripling of 45 in 1987.
I was never in the military, My Dad was in the guard, and my Son is in the guard now.
Though I have not served, I have the utmost respect for those who take arms to defend not only our country but its principles and honor. Thank you for your service.
“When I was young? He was a mere stripling of 45 in 1987.” Lol! Exactly what I was thinking when he said it, Snix. Perhaps it was a clumsy attempt to disguise his length of time as a part of the Washington ruling class.
“Thank you for your service.” Thanks, Jason, for your family’s contribution to this great country and your kind thoughts.
There was a time when I thought Biden might reach across the isle with a hard left, body language was funny on his side. She did a great job and appealed to all the bible hugging gun toting folks on main street America. Next Saturday duck season opens so I’ll nail a couple of Mallards in her honor. I
ll name them Barack and Biden.
Now that Palin is over the hump its time to let her lose on the press.
Catie,
As a fellow military wife (Army) I agree with you completely. We’ve done one rough deployment (lost one of our children after 2 days in Bagdhad, I had to deliver him alone) and he is headed downrange again soon.
My husband is not in the infantry but is prepared to go outside the wire if he needs to. I live on post and the wives of our Stryker soldiers have my utmost respect. I cannot imagine what it was like for them to know that a communications black out meant someone was seriously hurt or dead and not being able to hear my husband’s voice to know he is okay for days.
My prayers are with everyone with a loved one in the military, especially while deployed.
John, love the name of your blog. Interesting reading! My husband cannot stand the JAG corps when they’re out in the field telling you what you can or cannot do. In the early years of the war a friend of ours was deployed and he wanted to fire on something. Anyway, he had to call the JAG corps for some reason. The JAG denied his request. There were some other stories just like this because they were always having to ask about stuff.
Celina, I’m sorry about the loss of your child. Was your husband allowed to come home at all? When does your husband leave again? Mine has been back for about 7 months now. He’s got this new job and won’t be deploying again now for about two years. I think it may be better to live on post as there is always more support there.
My prayers are with you all as well.